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trump2twenty20 0 points ago (edited)

They have more than 1.4 beds for the 1000 hospitals, but the beds are full, so no I wasnt wrong... the ICU beds which are available have ran out due to coronavirus patients. Lol, I literally link a quote from the mayor of Bergamo about how their ICU is full and you say "show me numbers" what numbers are you looking for exactly? Not sure how the mayor saying they are over capacity isn't enough proof, but here's a doctor saying basically the same thing (they have to let patients who are unlikely to live, die). https://www.euronews.com/2020/03/12/coronavirus-italy-doctors-forced-to-prioritise-icu-care-for-patients-with-best-chance-of-s

You can say they are just fear mongering, but I dont think its that simple. Why are all countries around Europe closing schools , colleges and workplaces?

Half the world is pretty much on lockdown, except the US. Name any major country which hasn't introduced containment measures?

You say the US is completely different from Italy and will be fine? Just wait a few days, schools, colleges and workplaces will be cancelled. It's either that or elderly people will die...

What do you think will happen if no containment measures are taken? You think the healthcare system will be able to take care of everyone?

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trump2twenty20 0 points ago (edited)

The funny thing is, we will both see who is actually right here in a few days. The US is the last major country/region to be hit by this, right now all of asia is on lockdown and so are most european countries. You say its 'just like the flu' and that the healthcare system will be able to manage it, even without quarantine, well then why are all countries across europe and asia on lockdown? Germany, spain, france, italy, ireland, denmark, the list goes on, they have 1. shut down all schools and colleges and 2. either fully shutdown all workplaces, or shutdown non-essential workplaces.

How can you even continue your argument with half the world on lockdown. Do you genuinely think the US is different?

"There are over 1,000 hospitals in Italy. Are you suggesting that across all of those hospitals, they have less than 1.4 ICU beds on average?"

They have more beds, but you are forgetting that a lot of beds are already occupied. Italy has 12.5 beds per 1000 inhabitants

(https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/http%3A%2F%2Fcom.ft.imagepublish.upp-prod-eu.s3.amazonaws.com%2F3c3ef430-63c5-11ea-b3f3-fe4680ea68b5?fit=scale-down&quality=highest&source=next&width=700)

which means they have 7500 given a population of 60 million. But obviously they do not have 7500 beds free for coronavirus patients.

https://www.ft.com/content/34f25036-62f4-11ea-a6cd-df28cc3c6a68

Giorgio Gori, Bergamo mayor, tweeted: “It seems that the increase [in the number of cases] is slowing down, but it’s only because we have no longer beds in intensive care (few are added with great effort). Patients who cannot be treated are left to die”

And by the way, italys hospitals being this full is even with the fact they quarantined the entire country. Nobody is going to school, college, and only those who work in pharmacies or grocery stores are allowed to work. Even at that, they still have their hospitals over run.

"And don't you dare make another fucking post without sources because it will not end well for you." oh god you are terrifying.. especially given that you are an 'important person' please dont hurt me!

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trump2twenty20 1 point ago (edited)

It is happening in Italy. The number of cases who are critically ill and need ICU far outnumbers the amount of beds they have.

"Right now, there are 127,863 confirmed cases globally. You are sitting there lying to me that somehow even if we have the 20% rate of hospitalization which is the worst case scenario, that we don't have ~25,000 beds globally? Horse shit."

I hope after you reread what you just wrote, you realise how flawed your logic is.. wtf lol. You cant just take the number of cases globally and divide it to find the number of beds needed and say 'we have that many beds on the globe' The 127k cases number is not spread equally around the global, it is made up cases in certain countries, many of which have far higher proportion of cases relative to how much they make up of the global population (i.e. italy has 11% of the worlds cases, but only makes up 0.8% of the global population. Therefore it wont have 11% of the worlds beds...)

Just because we have 25k beds globally, does not mean the countries who need beds have them. The 25k cases are not spread around the world proportionally as you funnily assumed.

Italy currently says 10% of infected cases need ICU. They have 14k cases. That means 1400 in ICU. ICU stands for intensive care unit and it requires way more equipment than a regular hospital bed. For Covid19 it means delivering ventilation to patients, meaning you need the ventilators, and all the monitoring equipment to supply the right amount etc. They currently are overrun and people who need ICU are unable to get it.

Your 'facts' are combined with your flawed logic sadly, where you think we can just distribute the number of cases around the globe and have beds for everyone when like 25% of the cases are in italy and south korea which are tiny countries

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trump2twenty20 0 points ago

The goal is mitigation of the virus and reducing the spread, that is all we can do. This has been demonstrated possible in South Korea where their case count which was initially growing exponentially has started to reduce, when they closed all schools, colleges etc. Basically every country in europe has begun closing its schools, colleges, and non-essential workplaces. Its bound to happen in the US too. Why do you think the US is different, what is it that makes it any different to Europe?

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trump2twenty20 0 points ago

Yes. And I am saying that the same thing can be said of the common flu, there are more infected than the numbers suggest. So the two death rates can be compared. And that means that coronavirus has a far higher death rate than the flu. I'm not saying Covid-19 has a high death rate, im saying it has a high death when you compare it to the flu

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