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GeneralVeers 17 points ago +17 / -0

Police violence: every year, the police kill three times more White people than black people. Don't care. Non-issue.

Slavery: White people were getting taken as slaves long before they even knew black people existed. Don't care. Non-issue.

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deleted 1 point ago +3 / -2
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sub-collector -4 points ago +5 / -9

No, it does not.

Source: am Slav.

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MAGAlikeLINCOLN 0 points ago +1 / -1

What is your take on the politics of slavs. From what I've seen almost all the slavs I've met when they talk politics are all about identity politics and never about individualism.

They also all seem to bring up things that aren't just hundreds of years old but like 1000 years old as if all people don't have histories of persecution and as if somehow those stories should have any bearing on any political decision made today.

I feel like I am in bizzaro world sometimes when talking to most slavs. I'm wondering how you feel about the whole thing and do you think that as a whole they'll ever embrace individualism. Are there any examples of slavic countries that are currently fundamentally individualistic? Western Europe also suffers but I'd say to a lesser degree. In Europe you always hear people saying how there is no political movement based on classical liberalism and even in the US you have lefties talk about how the political factions in Europe do not have any major conservative sentiments (they say that ironically to denigrate US conservatism). Anyway, your thoughts would be appreciated.

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sub-collector 1 point ago +1 / -0

It's a pretty complex subject, Slavs, as far as my observation goes, have been fractured for quite some time now -- hundreds of years -- and there is no unification in sight yet.

As far as individualism vs collectivism goes, it's more of a European thing than just a Slav thing, and I wouldn't really separate the two, however fucked up the relationship between Slavs and "Western Europeans" has been over the millennia.

Once again, it's an extremely complex equation with lots of variables hidden from plain sight, such as, for instance, the total re-writing of Russian history by Germans in the early 18th century and literally erasing over 5,500 years of Russian history by adopting the Julian calendar in 1,700 CE, or bastardizing the language, or the 1917 disaster, and so on.

Then there is a more general question of culture and psychology on individualism and collectivism and the balance between the two. Maybe this perception should be based on the roots of these and the depth to which we go to practice them: God, family, country, right?

I know I am a bit all over the place right now -- sitting here in fucking smoke from the fires, it's a bit hard to concentrate, but it's also a complex and somewhat loaded question when it comes to discussing Slavs' perceptions and beliefs, especially, considering that a) they've been fractured as a group for a long time and b) "individualism" hasn't really been very important part, not as important as to Americans or even Western Europeans. At the same time, what is the history of borderline rabid Individualism? When did it really start and what is its importance in human development in general?

I'll leave it at that for now.

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MAGAlikeLINCOLN 0 points ago +1 / -1

Yes but this is what I'm talking about. Are the slavs any more fractured then the anglo heritage? I mean the US is no longer a colony. Canada and Australia only show symbolic deference towards London. During the revolutionary war there were many in the British Parliment that thought the declaration of independence made a lot of sense and that the British should let the US succeed.

As for the rewriting of history. Whose history hasn't been rewritten both deliberately and unintentionally? Who is descendant of a pure unspoiled culture with impeccable and unbastardized historicity? Even the most respected acient historians such as Cassius Dio for instance have their writings looked at through a lens of what was going on in the politics of his own day and how that would effect his telling of what happened and his spin on the resources of a hundred years in the past. Entire prejudices for some of the most famous rulers like Nero and Caligula (maybe they weren't so evil) have been revisited during our own lifetime.

What I'm saying is that none of the slavic countries (and to a lesser degree but even equally alarming none of the western European countries) seem to care about individualism. Imagine another developed country in the world with a strong philosophical stance on gun rights for instance. There isn't any that comes close to the US and I have no real idea why. To me those ideas seem so self evidently better that I would imagine I could sit down, talk to someone, and get them to agree but of course these ideas for some reason haven't en mass permeated outside the US and the further East one goes I would say to generalize, the further one departs of these ideas.

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sub-collector 1 point ago +1 / -0

It seems that you view individualism as a magic mushroom to solve all humanities problems, aside from other things, instead of trying to view the world through the prism of perception of the inhabitants of whatever chunk of the world you are considering.

"As for the rewriting of history." -- we lost our heritage, turned into cattle. But I don't see any reason to continue this exchange, it's not going to be productive.

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MAGAlikeLINCOLN 0 points ago +1 / -1

Individualism, the ideals coming out of the enlightenment age, the idea of the presumption of innocence, the pursuit of truth, the scientific method, and the freedom that classic liberalism argues for are about as close to a magic mushroom as you can get.

Otherwise your suggestion that "your people" losing "their heritage" presumably moreso than other cultures is nothing you can even complain about. Why should people have the right to not be subjects or even cattle if you don't believe in the rights of the individual? You are not upset about being a slave but about not being a slave to a greater slavic territory ruled by a single race and culture? Sounds pretty stupid and also hypocritical. You either embrace individualism or you don't complain about being cattle of this state or that state.

If you can't make this a productive discussion, I'm afraid it is either because your worldview is bullshit that doesn't stand up to scrutiny or you are not able to articulate yourself.

It is not unproductive for lack of me trying. Oh how I wish someone would actually shed some light onto this issue for me but they always end up bowing out disgracefully.

... continue reading thread?